Debian Bug report logs - #109669
[TRIVIAL] [INTL:de] New de.po file solves most known issues

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: ernst.kloppenburg@gmx.de

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Subject: dpkg: german translation of "suggests" is horribly wrong

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:07:13 +0200

Package: dpkg
Version: 1.9.6
Severity: normal

Hello!

With LANG=de_DE, dselect gives german output.

But the translation of "suggests" like in

   tetex-base suggests perl-tk   

is wrong. dselect has

   tetex-base suggeriert perl-tk

This translation is also found on dict.leo.org, but still wrong:

the meaning of the german word "suggerieren" is "to talk someone into
thinking (believing) that".

A better translation of "suggests" would be
"schlägt vor" (schlaegt vor).

There does not seem to be a one-word translation.

E. Kloppenburg



-- System Information
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Kernel Version: Linux rechner2 2.2.17 #1 Sun Jun 25 09:24:41 EST 2000 i586 unknown

Versions of the packages dpkg depends on:
ii  libc6          2.2.3-5        GNU C Library: Shared libraries and Timezone
ii  libncurses5    5.2.20010318-1 Shared libraries for terminal handling
ii  libstdc++2.10- 2.95.4-0.01042 The GNU stdc++ library

Message #10 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>

To: ernst.kloppenburg@gmx.de, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: dpkg: german translation of "suggests" is horribly wrong

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:12:02 +0200

ernst.kloppenburg@gmx.de wrote:
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.9.6
> Severity: normal
> 
> Hello!
> 
> With LANG=de_DE, dselect gives german output.
> 
> But the translation of "suggests" like in
> 
>    tetex-base suggests perl-tk   
> 
> is wrong. dselect has
> 
>    tetex-base suggeriert perl-tk
> 
> This translation is also found on dict.leo.org, but still wrong:
> 
> the meaning of the german word "suggerieren" is "to talk someone into
> thinking (believing) that".
> 
> A better translation of "suggests" would be
> "schlägt vor" (schlaegt vor).

%1 schlägt %2 vor, in case somebody is going to include that.

Regards,

	Joey

-- 
Computers are not intelligent.  They only think they are.

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Message #15 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert@wiggy.net>

To: Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.north.de>, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: dpkg: german translation of "suggests" is horribly wrong

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:39:51 +0200

Previously Martin Schulze wrote:
> %1 schl?gt %2 vor, in case somebody is going to include that.

code doesn't support that.

Wichert.

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________
 /       Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool     \
| wichert@wiggy.net                   http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ |
| 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0  2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |

Message #20 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christian Kurz <shorty@debian.org>

To: Wichert Akkerman <wichert@wiggy.net>, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Martin Schulze <joey@infodrom.north.de>

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: dpkg: german translation of "suggests" is horribly wrong

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:54:39 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 01-08-24 Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Martin Schulze wrote:
> > %1 schl?gt %2 vor, in case somebody is going to include that.
 
> code doesn't support that.

You mean the code doesn't support printing vor after %s? What about 

%1 empfiehlt %2

then? Would the code support that? I think empfiehlt would also be a
good translation for suggests.

Christian
-- 
           Debian Developer (http://www.debian.org)
1024/26CC7853 31E6 A8CA 68FC 284F 7D16  63EC A9E6 67FF 26CC 7853

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Message #25 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>

To: 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: dpkg: german translation of "suggests" is horribly wrong

Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:45:35 +0200

Christian Kurz wrote:
> On 01-08-24 Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> > Previously Martin Schulze wrote:
> > > %1 schl?gt %2 vor, in case somebody is going to include that.
>  
> > code doesn't support that.
> 
> You mean the code doesn't support printing vor after %s? What about 
> 
> %1 empfiehlt %2
> 
> then? Would the code support that? I think empfiehlt would also be a
> good translation for suggests.

Approved.

Regards,

	Joey

-- 
We all know Linux is great... it does infinite loops in 5 seconds.
        -- Linus Torvalds

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Message #30 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Michael Piefel <piefel@debian.org>

To: 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Code doesn't support it

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:24:11 +0100

> You mean the code doesn't support printing vor after %s? What about 
>
> %1 empfiehlt %2
>
> then? Would the code support that? I think empfiehlt would also be a
> good translation for suggests.

First, I suppose you mean "%1$s ..."

The problem is that the dpkg code does not use strings like that.
Instead it uses small "stringlets" as building blocks. Consequently, the
relevant part in the de.po file is:

#: main/depcon.c:138
msgid " suggests "
msgstr ""

One word only. No inversion. No bracing.

Oh, and to all those people out there complaining, I would appreciate
the following:
1. Don't use words like "horribly wrong". Don't say "Mis-translation". I
   checked this translation with a number of independent people who told
   me "suggeriert" doesn't _sound_ too good, but is quite clear.
2. Before suggesting "empfiehlt" you should check the current
   translation of "recommends". I don't consider using the same
   translation for two different concepts an improvement.

Note also that a new translation which uses "befürwortet" instead has
been sent to Wichert quite a while ago. If somebody hates this as well,
he should speak up now.

Bye,
    Mike

-- 
|=| Michael Piefel                    piefel@informatik.hu-berlin.de
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin              http://www.piefel.de
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831

Message #39 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert@wiggy.net>

To: Michael Piefel <piefel@debian.org>, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: Code doesn't support it

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:48:49 +0100

Previously Michael Piefel wrote:
> First, I suppose you mean "%1$s ..."

Unfortunately we can't do that, it's not portable.

Wichert.

-- 
  _________________________________________________________________
 /       Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool     \
| wichert@wiggy.net                   http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ |
| 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0  2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |

Message #44 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christian Kurz <shorty@debian.org>

To: Michael Piefel <piefel@debian.org>, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: Code doesn't support it

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:52:10 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 30/10/01, Michael Piefel wrote:
> > You mean the code doesn't support printing vor after %s? What about 

> > %1 empfiehlt %2

> > then? Would the code support that? I think empfiehlt would also be a
> > good translation for suggests.

> First, I suppose you mean "%1$s ..."

No I didn't meant something like that.

> 2. Before suggesting "empfiehlt" you should check the current
>    translation of "recommends". I don't consider using the same
>    translation for two different concepts an improvement.

And may I suggest that you read the bugreport to which I replied before
making a fool of yourself? Here's the report:

|With LANG=de_DE, dselect gives german output.

|But the translation of "suggests" like in

|   tetex-base suggests perl-tk

|is wrong. dselect has

|   tetex-base suggeriert perl-tk

|This translation is also found on dict.leo.org, but still wrong:

|the meaning of the german word "suggerieren" is "to talk someone into
|thinking (believing) that".

|A better translation of "suggests" would be
|"schlägt vor" (schlaegt vor).

|There does not seem to be a one-word translation.

I woul really urge you to read this report and then explain where we
have been talking about the correct translation for the word
'recommends'. We were talking about 'suggests' and it's translation. And
since "schlaegt vor" isn't usable, I suggest "empfiehlt" because you
have to also look at the context where it's used and "empfiehlt" seemd
to be a good idea to me. 

> Note also that a new translation which uses "befürwortet" instead has
> been sent to Wichert quite a while ago. If somebody hates this as well,
> he should speak up now.

Yes, I'm against usage of "befuerworten" as translation of the word
'suggests' because it has the meaning of 'advocate' which implies the
involvement of a human being. And there's no human being which
'advocates' the installation of some tool, but a tool called dselect
which is analyzing the recommendation and suggestion of the package you
plan to install and then make the suggestion to the user. So there's no
person involve that advocate the installation, but only a tool make a
suggestion. So I'm voting against this translation.

Christian
-- 
           Debian Developer (http://www.debian.org)
1024/26CC7853 31E6 A8CA 68FC 284F 7D16  63EC A9E6 67FF 26CC 7853

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Message #49 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Michael Piefel <piefel@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

To: 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: Code doesn't support it

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:03:47 +0100

It seems I haven't made myself sufficiently clear, so I will elaborate.

On 31/10/01 at 09:52:10, Christian Kurz wrote:
> And may I suggest that you read the bugreport to which I replied before
> making a fool of yourself? Here's the report:
Thank you very much, I had read it already; it's not necessary to quote
it all again. And please resort insults to personal mail.

> I woul really urge you to read this report and then explain where we
> have been talking about the correct translation for the word
> 'recommends'.
Nowhere. And I urge you to read my comment again and show me the part
where I claimed that you did.

But _I_ talked about the translation for " recommends ". 

> We were talking about 'suggests' and it's translation. [...] I suggest "empfiehlt"
Now you propose
"suggests"   ==> "empfiehlt"
And already there is another translation
"recommends" ==> "empfiehlt"

In other words, if you want to translate "suggests"   ==> "empfiehlt",
you have to change the translation of "recommends" as well. This is why
I asked people to have a look at this translation as well.


> Yes, I'm against usage of "befuerworten" as translation of the word
> 'suggests' because it has the meaning of 'advocate'
My dictionary also lists 'recommend'.
> which implies the involvement of a human being.
To me, this is completely in the same category as all the alternatives.
A package cannot really "recommend" or "suggest" anything, but we still
use that word.

> So I'm voting against this translation.
OK, but please do so constructively. We need a translation for
"suggests", _and_ one for "recommends", and those two should not be
the same word.

-- 
|=| Michael Piefel                    piefel@informatik.hu-berlin.de
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin              http://www.piefel.de
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831

Message #54 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christian Kurz <shorty@debian.org>

To: Michael Piefel <piefel@informatik.hu-berlin.de>, 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#109669: Code doesn't support it

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:00:12 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 02/11/01, Michael Piefel wrote:
> On 31/10/01 at 09:52:10, Christian Kurz wrote:
> > And may I suggest that you read the bugreport to which I replied before
> > making a fool of yourself? Here's the report:
> Thank you very much, I had read it already; it's not necessary to quote
> it all again. And please resort insults to personal mail.

And if you have a problem with me or my mails, then drop them in a
filter, like I already suggested to other people too.

> > We were talking about 'suggests' and it's translation. [...] I suggest "empfiehlt"
> Now you propose
> "suggests"   ==> "empfiehlt"
> And already there is another translation
> "recommends" ==> "empfiehlt"

> In other words, if you want to translate "suggests"   ==> "empfiehlt",
> you have to change the translation of "recommends" as well. This is why
> I asked people to have a look at this translation as well.

What gives you the impression that I download first about 1300kb to
inspect it and then only make a suggestion for a translation? I
obviously made my suggestion for a proper translation without inspecting
the whole translation.

> > Yes, I'm against usage of "befuerworten" as translation of the word
> > 'suggests' because it has the meaning of 'advocate'
> My dictionary also lists 'recommend'.

I based my decision not on the fact which words are listed in a
dictionary, but on the meaning of the word.

Christian
-- 
           Debian Developer (http://www.debian.org)
1024/26CC7853 31E6 A8CA 68FC 284F 7D16  63EC A9E6 67FF 26CC 7853

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Message #61 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Felix Kühling <fxkuehl@gmx.de>

To: 109669@bugs.debian.org

Subject: New proposal for a good german translation of "suggests"

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:32:44 +0200

Hi,

my proposal for the translation is:

  %1 rät zu %2

It's simple and clear and should be possible to implement in the existing scheme.

Regards,
   Felix Kühling

               __\|/__    ___     ___     ___
__Tschüß_______\_6 6_/___/__ \___/__ \___/___\___You can do anything,___
_____Felix_______\Ä/\ \_____\ \_____\ \______U___just not everything____
  fxkuehl@gmx.de    >o<__/   \___/   \___/        at the same time!

Message #78 received at 109669@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Martin Quinson <mquinson@ens-lyon.fr>

To: 109669@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Michael Piefel <piefel@debian.org>

Subject: Solution for most german issues

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:45:06 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

merge 109669 187952
retitle 109669 [TRIVIAL] [INTL:de] New de.po file solves most known issues
tag 109669 patch
thanks

I got this file from Michael Piefel. He says it solves most of the german
issues. BTS modified as relevant.

Thanks for commiting, Mt.

[dpkg-de.po.bz2 (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

Message #95 received at 109669-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Scott James Remnant <scott@netsplit.com>

To: 109669-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#109669: fixed in dpkg 1.10.21

Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:17:03 -0400

Source: dpkg
Source-Version: 1.10.21

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
dpkg, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

dpkg-dev_1.10.21_all.deb
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg-dev_1.10.21_all.deb
dpkg-doc_1.10.21_all.deb
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg-doc_1.10.21_all.deb
dpkg_1.10.21.dsc
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.10.21.dsc
dpkg_1.10.21.tar.gz
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.10.21.tar.gz
dpkg_1.10.21_i386.deb
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.10.21_i386.deb
dselect_1.10.21_i386.deb
  to pool/main/d/dpkg/dselect_1.10.21_i386.deb



A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 109669@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Scott James Remnant <scott@netsplit.com> (supplier of updated dpkg package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.7
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:55:10 +0100
Source: dpkg
Binary: dpkg-doc dpkg dselect dpkg-dev dpkg-static
Architecture: source all i386
Version: 1.10.21
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Dpkg Development <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>
Changed-By: Scott James Remnant <scott@netsplit.com>
Description: 
 dpkg       - Package maintenance system for Debian
 dpkg-dev   - Package building tools for Debian
 dpkg-doc   - Dpkg Internals Documentation
 dselect    - a user tool to manage Debian packages
Closes: 10879 33046 47267 90623 98210 102094 109669 109691 115352 120970 124225 146167 151799 155456 158916 160761 161156 166052 171489 174973 174978 179192 187952 200701 200763 204275 207758 214699 219210 220776 225086 233614 237589 237624 237864 239000 240081 241503 242870 243191 244098 244316
Changes: 
 dpkg (1.10.21) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * Fix incorrect linked list node removal code that caused every second
     shared or diverted conffile to be deleted by dpkg.
     Closes: #10879, #33046, #47267, #90623, #98210, #109691, #146167.
     Closes: #155456, #204275.
   * Call mknod with the required device type.  Closes: #158916.
   * Correct the default query output format to be consistent with
     what the underlying library expects.  Closes: #174973.
   * Fix missing NULL-termination in dpkg-query -W display of dependency
     fields.  Closes: #174978
   * Strip output from md5sum(1) after the first whitespace character.
     Closes: #200763.
   * Output a warning if we cannot open a configuration file instead of
     treating it as a fatal error, in case our home directory is not readable
     by root.  Closes: #200701.
   * Set LC_ALL to C before spawning off dpkg --search, to avoid searching
     on localized strings.  Closes: #244316.
   * Don't require argument for start-stop-daemon -V.  Closes: #237589.
   * Correct use of @ARGV within dpkg-scanpackages, allowing -u to work
     once again.  Closes: #225086, #241503.
   * Make sure file permissions passed to dpkg-statoverride are numeric.
     Closes: #161156.
   * Correctly break out of the loop in install-info.
     Closes: #124225, #160761.
   * Add --dir-file option to install-info for GNU install-info
     compatibility.  Closes: #179192
   * Refer to debian-policy in dpkg-doc's description instead of the
     non-existant packaging-manual.  Closes: #120970.
   * Remove incorrect mention of build-essential from dpkg-checkbuilddeps
     manpage.  Closes: #219210.
   * Add a note about diverting shared libraries to the dpkg-divert
     manpage.  Closes: #214699.
   * Updated Translations:
     - Brazilian Portugese (Andre Luis Lopes).  Closes: #237864.
     - Catalan (Jordi Mallach).
     - Danish (Claus Hindsgaul).  Closes: #237624.
     - Dutch (Pieter-Paul Spiertz, Bart Cornelis, Erwin).
       Closes: #102094, #151799, #207758.
     - French (Sam Hocevar).  Closes: #243191.
     - German (Florian Ernst).  Closes: #109669, #115352, #187952, #244098.
     - Japanese manpages (KISE Hiroshi).  Closes: #220776.
     - Polish (Bartosz Fenski).  Closes: #242870.
     - Spanish (Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña).  Closes: #166052.
     - Swedish (Peter Karlsson).
   * New Translations:
     - Japanese dpkg-source manpage (KISE Hiroshi).  Closes: #239000.
     - Norwegian Nynorsk (Gaute Hvoslef Kvalnes).  Closes: #233614.
     - Portguese (Miguel Figueiredo).  Closes: #240081.
     - Spanish dpkg-source manpage (Ruben Porras).  Closes: #171489.
Files: 
 3c0ee1d26bd55362b92eee8e6255aee0 798 base required dpkg_1.10.21.dsc
 a9f6c43891db74d727beab7dfc0ee663 1682647 base required dpkg_1.10.21.tar.gz
 e492251ba4cf345982782b7880056e1f 1220962 base required dpkg_1.10.21_i386.deb
 132ac9df0f3dd8fd8b7adbf409f8ed3e 105530 base required dselect_1.10.21_i386.deb
 48e0a00caea19997c46ad2d7539b2731 137490 utils standard dpkg-dev_1.10.21_all.deb
 794381a64e07416e48af7d6bb4ae52d0 10620 doc optional dpkg-doc_1.10.21_all.deb

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